Hi, I'm Joe Harroz, president of the University of Oklahoma. I want to welcome you to our conversations with the president. This platform gives me the chance to talk to some of the great people who make OU so special. Make sure you subscribe to conversations with the president, and you'll be the first to know when new episodes are released. Let's get started.
Welcome back to Conversations with the President. Thanks for joining us again. I can't believe we're already in May. Graduation is a few days away. It just goes way too quickly. The energy on campus is off the charts. We've got a great episode today. A dear friend of mine, both he and his family have become great friends. Jim Nagy if you haven't met her, Lindsey is his much better half, great family, doing extraordinary work here at OU. But before that, I know you wouldn't be comfortable unless we covered two questions that are a part of hey Harroz, the greatest question and answer period, I know that our audience can imagine. We have two questions. The first one today is from an OU staff member. First question is from Emily who asks, "What is your favorite OU sports memory as a fan?" That's not fair. I'm truly sooner born and sooner bred, and it's been a while since I was born. There are just a unbelievable number of those. If you had to press me, obviously, national championship in 2000, but probably the game that most thrilled me was OU Nebraska that year. When we took the goal post down, that was ridiculous. But it's not fair. In football, since Jim is with us, I would have to say the Tennessee game this year was this turning point game. I was with Jim and Lindsey at that time, being in the four pet and softball, I don't know where to go with this. The question is too big, so I quit the question. I object to the question, and I quit the question. The second question is from May. May asks this question. She asks, "My son is graduating from OU this spring. I think yours is to, what is one of your top pieces of advice for this year's graduates? You're right. My oldest is graduating, and my piece of advice is get off my dole. No, that's not the top piece of advice. I don't know. I'm struggling with this. It's still a few days until graduation. In the back of my head, I've been wondering what to say. Last year, I went with the three of B great at your job, be good as a person, and be worthy of having an OU degree. I always talk about what I think the meaning of life is, which is to love and if you can make a difference. But I don't know. It is a little different when your kids graduate. You know what? May, show up. You're going to find out what advice I have to give. A lot of folks will be trying to find out what that message is literally my mom and almost nobody else. Look forward to that. Now let's turn to this conversation. In real time. I know we've had a number of conversations about college athletics. Jim Nagy joined us at OU February of 2025, and so 18 months ago, we had him on the show at the beginning of this academic year in September. The fan base couldn't take it. They wanted more. I've asked Jim to come back. His background's fascinating. Prior to coming here and becoming the first true pro-style GM in the country for college athletics, he had been with the Senior Bowl for seven years. Ran that, had been with four NFL teams in the prior 17 years.
Four or five. Who's counting.
Yeah, who's counting? And how many Super Bowl games did your teams play in?
Six appearances and four wins and two of the most memorable losses Eva was a part of, but we're not going to talk about those.
It's a good insight into who you are, because anybody else would say, my batting average was like 333 from making it to a Super Bowl, which is ridiculous. It's the two losses that haunt you. But your background's extraordinary. We knew you had the resume and we're thrilled when you joined us, but you've immediately become a part of the community. I've had a chance to travel with you and your wife and get to know your family. I feel like you've been here forever. You feel like family [OVERLAPPING]
Feels like a lot longer than a year.
Yeah, because of how much you've enjoyed it, not because of how difficult the work has been.
That's right.
Sure. Well played. The idea of today was not just what's changed in college athletics, but really this idea of how do you lead, especially given the nature of your role, when you might talk for just a couple of minutes about what your role is. But I want to have a conversation about how do you lead through this. Just a refresher, you might tell people what you do as an independent prostyle GM working with Brent Venables. Yeah, it's the structure that you put in place, and Randall Stephenson put in place true collaboration between Brent's staff and the coaches in our new front office. I would say, our biggest piece is evaluation. For lack of a better phrase, we trim the fat for the coaches. We've got a lot of manpower on the scouting staff side. I just do a lot of work that, especially when we get into the season, and Coach Venables just isn't our head coach. He's also our defensive coordinator. When you get into a season, those guys have so much going on. The bandwidth, this whole football sphere, athletics, it's just outgrown the bandwidth of the coach. It's just not traditional anymore. No, it's just working in collaboration to build the roster and enhance culture and all those things. There's so many people in our building that touch the players. That's maybe one thing I didn't appreciate before I got here, there's just so many people that have an impact on our players and just having that alignment starting with Coach Venables. He sets the standard every day. He likes to say he sets the temperature every day in the building, and he does a great job of that. I think just working hand in hand and making sure this roster and this culture are in the right spot.
Yeah. Great GM. You could do a better job of salesmanship of what you've done because it's extraordinary. You came here, you show up in February, right after season before last. It wasn't a great season. Your partnership with Venables has been remarkable. You had an impact immediately, and so proud of this past season. It's been fun to watch you work, but also as a friend, listen to just I mean, you live this every minute of every day. People don't realize the intensity that goes into being a general manager. Just to fast forward to where we are today, right now, you have the first full class you've been a part of in partnership with Brent is the number 1 ranked recruiting class in the country for the 2027 class. That's stunning in an era where everyone knows how much change there's been. You obviously have been deep on the professional side of football, and now you've become an expert on the college side in this new world order. What's been the biggest surprise for you since starting 18 months ago, about what it means to be a successful GM in college sports.
I would say the biggest surprise, you're asking me if there's anything outside what I thought my scope would be, it would probably be the fundraising, quite honestly. That's a huge part of it. You need resources in college football right now. There's a really high standard at Oklahoma, and that's why this was such an attractive job was that this is one of the brands of college football. There's a standard of excellence. I probably didn't realize that as much, but I love it, meeting donors and getting out there and having different events, again, we're in the midst of the Sooner Caravan right now. Just had last night, our first event up in OKC. We're heading off to Tulsa tonight, but just meeting the fans and meeting the donors, that's probably more interaction with the public in my role. When you're coming from the NFL, there's not a lot of that. There's not a lot of community. Yeah, there's huge fan bases, but there's not a lot of opportunity to connect with the fan bases. Where OU, there has been, and it's been great.
Yeah. No, so yesterday, I had a call from another SEC schools AD, and they just finished up the AD meetings in Birmingham. The last couple of days, and it was fascinating. They known this person for a while, and the comment was Damn, they had just met our new athletic director, Roger Denny. They were like, My God, this guy must be the smartest person in the room. Then they referenced, and you've got Jim Nagy. This isn't fair. I think Jim in his short or Roger in his short time here is already making an impact. When you think about what we have with Brent Venables, he has attributes that no one else in the country has. You think about the talents of Venables and you think about Roger as our new athletic director, who has nontraditional attributes. Then you, as the first of its kind, so definitely non-traditional prostyle GM you look at each one of those positions and you're like, we have tried, and you referenced Randall Stephenson and me and the board trying to figure out how do you bring in top talent in this era? There could be a concern, maybe each of these are so different that it might not work. People throw around the word alignment, but tell me how the fit and feel is and how that allows you to or maybe limits you in your ability to adapt to this changing environment.
I think alignment is key, quite honest, it starts with you and Roger. For Brent and myself, the alignment part is, we feel your support. We understand there's not a lot of university presidents that understand the importance of football in the big picture of Four University, us being the front porch to the world. This OU football is really one of the most visible parts of the university. We know we have your full support. Again, just the outside the box thinking that it took to bring in someone like myself and Roger Denny and you're right. Thing I appreciate about Roger, I know he's always smarter than me when he's in a room with me, but he's not one of those guys that tries to make you feel like that either, which is great, which I love about Roger. But no, I think the alignment is great. Then where Brent and I have to be aligned is just the core values of what the foundation of the program is going to be, what do we value in the people that we're bringing in? And one thing I've learned, too, I think we're probably going to talk about a lot of things I've learned on the job, but one thing I would say in terms of recruiting and putting a roster together, it's not just the young men that we're bringing in the program. It's the families now. When I was in the NFL, if you really boiled it down for scouts and what are you trying to figure out about these kids? And it was like, what are they going to do with more time on their hands and more money in their pockets before they were getting paid in college. That was what we were always concerned about. Who's ready to handle the NFL lifestyle? And we won't get into the details of an NFL lifestyle.
Probably a lot of studying, some deep reflection. A lot.
But now these guys are, they have that now at 17-years-old. There's a lot of challenges that come with that. We really just evaluating the people and the families that we bring in and Brent and I are totally in lockstep on that and what that should look like.
That to me, has been the part from my chair. I know Randall and I talked about it a lot was, how do you handle creating an independent general manager, prostyle, but keeping the teamwork in lockstep. I've got to tell you, the way you and Brent Venables work together is stunning. I think that is to me, surprised on the upside, you wondered if there'd be any friction. But you and Brent like you said, he sets the weather. He determines the weather, but being able to work as a team to build the rosters. To me, that's a huge part of why we had the Number 1 ranked recruiting class coming in in 2027. It's why we made it into the CFP and had that epic hosting of Alabama, which was loved it at 17-0 [OVERLAPPING]
That was fun. That was a lot of highlights point at 17-0.
But, it's the harbinger of what is to come, and that to me is exciting. Right now, one of the questions I get a lot, and I always I'm like, ask Jim, especially if we're together socially. I'm like, I don't want to listen to this. You give it to Jim. This question of these days, what separates good from great programs right now, football programs in this moment. What do you think the great differentiator?
Well, the easy answer is resources. There's no getting around that. There's no getting around the finances of college football right now. Having resources you need that. You can be the greatest recruiting staff and have a great university to sell. But you need resources. But the thing I would say is just consistency I think that's what's going to separate a lot of programs as we move through this new model and this change and wherever this change lands, whether that's 18 months down the road or five years. It's got to land somewhere. I think we all know that. But I think it's the consistency at the leadership positions. That's why I'm excited Brent has been here. I think this is going into year 5 for Coach Venables. This thing is set. This culture is set, and that's going to sustain us. There's going to be so much change and a lot of knee jerk reactions from administrations. We didn't win right away. I think that just driving in this morning, there was a listen to a radio show, college football radio show, and a lot of fan bases had to recalibrate. What does this look like? And Alabama, specifically, I don't want to speak about another university, but that's where I lived for 18 years. You live through the Sabin days, and every year, they're in a college football championship game, it felt like. It's just a different landscape I think there's going to be a lot of change going on, but our stability at OU right now, I think, is going to set us apart.
Yeah. It's fascinating. In your comments, you talked about, where it's going to land. It has to land, that makes it clear you believe that where we are right now is not sustainable.
You and I've talked about that a lot, and I think we agree it's not sustainable, and it won't be sustained. You talked about a time horizon, what do you think that time horizon looks where college athletics finds its structural footing?
That's a great question. I don't have the answer for it, I really don't. We were actually looking back at just some salaries. I won't share the raw numbers, but next year's roster is going to be 4X what it was four years ago. This thing is just growing exponentially every year, and that's why I say it's not sustainable because where's the money coming from? Jenny Branchik and I were laughing yesterday. I think I used the wrong analogy at the time, but there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube. We're not going to pull this back now at this point. You're going to have guys on your roster and they're not going to take a haircut because we're implementing a new system. Where that lands and how quickly it does, I don't know. I think you and I have spoken off camera before, a CBA model. There is a model in place. There is a football, at least for football, I'm not going to speak to the other sports. At least in football, there is a model out there that has shown that it works.
CBA being the collective bargaining agreement?
Correct. We don't have to completely cut and paste what the NFL does, but if we went to a very similar structure, I think we could find a good spot.
The truth is that's where it's going to land.
That happens.
That's where all the smart money says it's going to land, and the question is, just like fans have to recalibrate, to me, in the rooms that I'm in, which is the board of directors, the presidents and chancellors of the SEC, and Big Ten brethren, and Big 12 brethren, and ACC, everyone knows this. But to me, and I'd love to hear the conversation you're in, at least the ones that I'm in, it's taken people a while to get there because change is hard, but I think everybody understands. A, it's unsustainable and B, the most likely landing spot for this, absent a Hail Mary through Congress, which is possible, but unlikely, ends up with something that looks like a collective bargaining agreement.
I think it's the only way just to share some conversations avid. In my view, if you wanted to, fix isn't the right word, but if you wanted to land in a better spot for the greater good of college football, is some freshman salary cap, if you will, because that's really one of my biggest challenges. There's a lot, we've talked about it, but the acquisition cost out of high school right now is so high, and you have to go after good players, you have to get the top talent in the country. But right now, it can be at the expense of your culture, which Coach Venables and the coaching staff have worked so hard to develop over the years. You don't want to take a high school kid and pay him more than some guy that's on your roster that's an all SEC level player. That one thing, one blind spot that I did have coming in the job, I didn't realize the players would talk and share the information as much as they would share. But if we had some rookie/freshman cap, that would alleviate that issue. That's just one aspect of a CBA that would really help just for the greater good of the sport right now.
It's funny, I look at the greater good of the sport. For me, we talk about it a lot, at the University of Oklahoma, I think of football, which is the lifeblood of athletics. As you said, it's a connective tissue for the institution. I see it in three of the five pillars of OU around how our students feel connected, how our alumni feel connected, how our community feels connected in a way that's not as divisive as politics. I think it's true not just at OU, but also for the greater good of the country. We need college athletics, college football as the lead horse to be successful, but right now there's no salary cap, right now there is unlimited transfer, unlimited free agency, and there's no enterprise in the country in athletics can work with that model, and so it is going to find this. How do we manage from here to there? From here to that point of future stability? When you think about what you have to do and we have to do to be successful, what do you think the key to that is?
Well, I would say the word forward thinking comes to mind. We talked about leadership at the start. It's in our mission statement for the OU front office, as being adaptive and forward thinking. I think your mind has to be in that space, and that's analyzing everything every year because just since I've taken the job, this has changed a lot. Again, where this is all going to land, you just have to try to anticipate the challenges ahead. For us, to me, we can't compromise what we want to be as a program and the culture and just try to maintain stability. We talked about it last night at the Caravan event. I'm very, proud it's not the right word, but was really grateful that we were able to keep all of our starters, retain all of our starters in the portal this year, and I think that's part of the collaboration is the coaches were prepping for Alabama in the playoff game, our staff was working on portal prep, and our ability to retain our starters, give our coaching staff a ton of credit for that as well, because our players want to be here. Now, if there's another offer out there that just is way beyond what we have on the table, some players are going to take that, but our coaches have our culture in such a great spot. Again, I think you always every year try to see where this thing's going. I don't have the right answer, Joe, I really don't. I wish I had the right answer where this thing's going to go, but we always have to be ready to pivot and adapt.
I'm so proud, not just race to Number 1 ranked recruiting class, but people wonder if college football teams are losing their soul. I can tell you it's not happening at Oklahoma.
No.
To your point, what Brent Venables is doing and what this, just take a look at an Owen Heinecke, take a look at Stone, take a look at these kids that are becoming men, and they're being developed in this program, and they've got a home. That's what I worry about with a lot of programs, is they transfer so many times they don't have the most important thing, which is 10, 20, 30 years from now, they've got a place that's their college home.
To come back to.
And those relationships. I love that our locker room is real. Our locker room feels as connected or more connected to me. It's as connected as it has been at any time in Oklahoma's history, and to me, that's the essence of the secret sauce in a lot of ways right now.
I'll say two things. One, I feel the responsibility to maintain this roster for the fan base. They don't want to show up at the stadium every Saturday, every year with a new team out there.
No.
You look at this year's football team, you rattled off some names. You got Kip Lewis and Owen Heinecke at linebacker, Jayden Jackson, David Stone, Taylor Wein, Danny Okoye on the defensive line, PJ Adebawore, the Bowen Brothers in the secondary, Courtland Guillory our fan base knows these guys. These guys have been here 2, 3, 4 years. Then just to take you behind the curtain a little bit last night, I get home from the Sooner event at the Jones Assembly, and I have a phone call with a recruit and his dad. We just got on this player recently. He's a new guy chasing outside the footprint a little bit. I shared with him the Owen Heinecke story. I said, every player across college football, especially at a place like Oklahoma, the goal is to get to the National Football League. Here, Owen goes to the Senior Bowl, in the Combine, and has his Pro Day, he's going through the spring, he's taking visits to NFL teams, they're flying their coaches here to work him out, he's in this limbo stage. How many kids would walk away from that to come back and play one more year of college football? I was relaying to this young man and his dad. I said, that speaks to our culture. I can sit here and talk about our culture and our brotherhood like every program does, but you go back two weeks, that is a direct reflection of what we've built because Owen wouldn't be doing that if he didn't have a brotherhood that he felt like he had to here at OU.
It makes me smile so much. We had Party at the Palace. We were on the field last Friday night, big drone show, big party for our graduating seniors and their families, and all of a sudden I hear, hey, pres and Ashley, and David Stone puts his arms around my wife and me.
His big arms.
Huge arms. [LAUGHTER] He's a part of this community, and he's talking about his family, and I think he was there for his sister.
That's what you have to make sure you supply, and I think that if we continue to compete at the highest level, our successes are both on and off the field, and I'm really proud of you and obviously Coach Venables, who lives this every day. I don't think people understand adequately how special it is to have that kind of a culture in this environment. There's plenty of selfish coaches out there, there's plenty of people that are out there that are looking for their next deal, and the kids can tell when it's a fraud, the student athletes can. Just couldn't be more proud of what you all are building. Coach Venables. I know Roger is a huge addition, but this legacy of OU football's a big one to carry. During the time we have it, we've got to make sure we carry it the right way and forward.
We already see a lot of schools trying to adopt and adapt to what you've done here at Oklahoma. Do you see that spreading to other sports?
Sure. Again, like I said, I think where we're at in college athletics right now, it's outgrown the bandwidth of the traditional model, where the head coach is the do all leader of the organization, so no, I think just here at OU with Porter and Jenny bringing in GMs recently has been really cool for them because again right now the portal is almost overlapping while they're playing. I think Jenny said they got out of the Sweet 16 round and the portal started the next day or something like that. There's just no time to prepare for the coaches, so I think that's something we're going to continue to see. But back to your point, if you don't mind me going back to what you were just talking about our football team, I think another thing that you talk about something that's lost. I hope it's not lost on the fan base of what great kids we have in our program. I almost think paying these guys has made them grow up, and we have a really mature football team, and we're all guilty of it, I'm guilty of it, I know you are, I've been with you enough, we're on our phones all the time. If you go into where we eat at the stadium and at the club level every day, we don't tell our guys that there's not a, no cell phone policy, in there, and to go in every day and see different groups of guys all hanging with each other, no one's got their phones out, it's refreshing, it gives you hope for [LAUGHTER] the next generation. They are really a great group of guys.
No, they are. Some of these teams, they never interact with anyone but themselves. One of the student groups had Chainsmokers, the band on campus this weekend. [OVERLAPPING]
How incredible was that?
I felt like I wanted to go, but I felt like that might be a little awkward for everybody. Love the Chainsmokers.
Especially if you took your shirt off like John Mateer.
That's the point.
But you would have wanted to do that, I know you.
That's why I didn't go [LAUGHTER] because there's no way to avoid doing that, certainly if you're built like this. John Mateer's in the mix, and Daniel. I love that they're a part of the community in a way that matters a ton. I could go on. I really appreciate you taking the time, what you're doing. Obviously, you've become a great friend. You and Lindsey and the kids. I can't believe you've only been here since February of 2025. The impact that you have as part of the OU family is like you've been here forever. You look where we are right now, programs with more resources than us aren't Number 1 in the country right now and recruiting, and that secret sauce is you, and Coach Venables, and now Roger Denny. You pour into this. I see it when you're at work, I see you when you're supposed to not be at work and we're just hanging out. You pour everything into this, and I can just tell you it's appreciated, it matters, and couldn't be more grateful to have you to help.
Joe, thank you. Means a lot. But I'm very grateful. This was an incredible opportunity. It is an incredible opportunity every day to wake up and do this. No, just really grateful, blessed to be here, and the best is yet to come. We've only been at this a year. Again, with the Number 1 recruiting class, nobody's patting themselves on the back right now. We got a long way to go till December to keep these guys locked in. But we're so much further ahead than we were a year ago, so I'm actually excited to think about where we're going to be in '27.
You look good for having just gotten a new dog this weekend. Everything going okay there?
Everything's good, she's doing great.
Good looking dog.
Great dog. Everyone in my house is great looking except myself.
Well, first part's definitely right, second part probably is, too, but it'd be insulting to confirm that. We got a new dog showing up on Sunday.
Let's get the pups together.
I know. I feel like the sleeps going to be at a premium again. Hey, thanks for being here. Thanks to everyone for joining. You can see why we had him back so quickly. Grateful to the entire OU community, friends, family, all of you alums. Thanks for being here. Thanks for joining conversations with the president, and we'll see you for the next episode soon.
