[JOE HARROZ} Hi, I'm Joe Harroz, president of the University of Oklahoma. I want to welcome you to our Conversations with the President. This platform gives me the chance to talk to some of the great people who make OU so special. Make sure you're subscribed to Conversations with the President, and you'll be the first to know when new episodes are released. Let's get started.
All right. First things first. During our last conversation, I was joined by the inaugural, the founding director of the Stephenson School of Biomedical Engineering, Dr. Michael Detamore. He did a remarkable job talking about everything that's happening at the Stephenson School of Biomedical Engineering and the tireless efforts they're doing to change the lives for all of us and the health care of Oklahomans and the health care of our country. He had some great prototypes, which we had a lot of fun with. I think any time we do a podcast that involves props, it's all the better for it.
So here we are today in this next installment of Conversations with the President, wanted to talk about both individuals that have graduated from OU, the impact they're having on our state and society and how those interplays with the university of Oklahoma itself.
So, our guests today are two remarkable individuals. They're both OU graduates and they lead the Oklahoma legislature and have for the last several years and have been elected by their caucuses to serve in those roles for this next year. The first is the Speaker of the House of Representatives in Oklahoma, Charles McCall.
The second is the leader of the Senate. A lot of folks don't know the term, but it's Senate Pro Tempore, which is actually referred to as Senate Pro Tem. And that's Greg Treat, also an OU grad.
These two individuals have already made a remarkable difference for our state and for our university and are leading the kinds of lives that we hope for all of our students lives of significant meaning and impact.
And these two leaders in the role they've had are not two ordinary leaders. They're extraordinary leaders. And to give you an idea and to frame up just how special their tenure has been in these jobs and the impact they're making at OU on behalf of our state, I want to give you a number of statistics. And before I read them from the last two legislative sessions, here's the context.
Prior to the last two legislative sessions, the largest single appropriation given to the University of Oklahoma was in 2001 with a $22 million appropriation to complete the National Weather Center. And we've seen the impact that has had. Now, we read these statistics over the last two sessions with these two individuals leading our legislature and their impact at OU.
In the 2021 legislative session. These things occurred: $5 Million in the Higher Education Base for Engineering. They passed a bill to restore historic sales tax exemptions for OU Health, which allowed our workforce to grow in the area of physicians and physician assistants, including 70, 70 new resident positions to allow for more doctors to help our citizens. And that session, $20 million for a secured defense building, helping out the aerospace initiative and $13 million to upgrade the engineering labs.
This past legislative session's numbers also were staggering $20 million for the expansion of the National Weather Center, which we saw the success of back in 2001. $10 million to build the OU Polytech in Tulsa, to create the workforce we need for our businesses that are here and the ones that we hope to attract. $5 million in the base to bring Stephenson Cancer Center research to the Tulsa area. $1.8 million for continued support of nursing.
Now under the dollars that were part of the American Rescue Plan Act, the pandemic relief, a total of $110 million in ARPA funding for the OU enterprise, $44 million for electronic health records, $39 million for a new world class pediatric behavioral health facility to help the entire state and region. $7.5 million for the pediatric emergency department and $20 million to make sure we could bring Stephenson Cancer care, which is like none other in the region, to northeast Oklahoma.
They've worked tirelessly for Oklahoma. We're so thrilled to have them as OU alums and leaders of our state were now welcoming our guests.
So, it is such a pleasure to welcome you two here. It's an odd stage in life when you get to have contemporaries that are leading the state and making such a huge difference. Truly, you know, I don't say it enough, but truly lucky to be your friend. Thank you for all you're doing. Just reading those statistics over the last two years and comparing that to the investment made previously by the legislature at OU. It is. It's making a tremendous difference. Could not thank you all more and thanks for the leadership you all are providing.
Now let's talk about you all. All right. Let's start off with the speaker. Tell us a little bit about your experience at OU. I know that there's a great story about how you found your wife here. And tell us about your path at OU and how it's led you to where you are today.
[CHARLES MCCALL] Joe, thanks for having me.
Yeah. A lot that's been accomplished in and I've been able to experience in life. I could directly point back to my time at the University of Oklahoma. So, it was a special time being here. Not only just that I met my wife on a blind date here and received my college education in the field of business and in finance, but the experience here was tremendous, not only with the faculty, not only with the education, but just the people that you come in contact with and you meet and that's it's always been interesting to me in my service in the state legislature, just how many people I've run across just from my time here at OU. People that were also students at the same time that are in other positions of leadership. Randy McDaniels, one of those that comes to mind who was here on campus, who's been it was in the House of Representatives before I arrived and went on to be our state's treasurer. So, just a lot of great memories, a great time here. And I'd say, you know, the university played a huge role in preparing me for not just this, but the private sector business climate in the state of Oklahoma.
[HARROZ] Yeah. And I love the fact that my son's a freshman. And Chase, you're one of your two sons is graduating this December. Right in the next this coming Saturday.
[MCCALL] Yes. We will be here Saturday. And we expect to see him go across the stage. And but he's excited. He's had a great experience. And our youngest son is in his sophomore year here. So, I love it. Yeah. Our family's very much loyal to the University of Oklahoma.
[HARROZ] I love it. I love what you're doing in terms of appropriation, but also in terms of paying tuition. So thank you.
[MCCALL] You're welcome.
[HARROZ] That's a great it's a great cycle. It's good to have friends that help in multiple ways. Mr. Pro Tim. Tell us about. Tell us about, you know, your background at OU. I love the fact that now your family is evolving as well. Maressa, your wife has just filed recently for the county clerk position in Oklahoma County.
So you're going to have to go to support position there as well. But tell us about your experience.
[GREG TREAT] Yeah, first off, I'm excited to be here. Thank you, Mr. President. I appreciate it. And I'm excited, Marissa, as a candidate, because now I get to be the complainer and say, if I were there, I'd be doing X, Y, or Z.
In fact, on the drive down here, I was telling her to continue making phone calls and not wasting time. So, it's a great turn of, uh, turn of phrase to be able to tell her, hey, you remember when you told me that I was being lazy or a coward on something? Hey, you need to get on the phone.
[HARROZ] Yeah, it's time to step away. More fun providing advice and taking it.
[TREAT] Oh, it is. It is, without a doubt. But now my time with you is awesome and loved it. I was here from 96 to 2000, lived at 1620 Chautauqua. In fact, I got to drive down Chautauqua on the way here and bore my communications director with stories about what happened when we were here.
But life changing. I came from Catoosa, Oklahoma and my brother was a junior here at the time that I came and lived all four years in that house and made some really good friendships. Actually, when you I wasn't thinking about it until you said something about Randy McDaniel, one of my best friends here. And don't hit me when I say it was Scott Inman.
Scott Inman who ended up being the Democrat leader on the House side, minority side. He and I were very close here and made friendships all across the state, friendships that last to this day with people who agree with me, people who disagree with me. And it really was an awesome experience. Got to work at Houston Huffman My junior and senior year, uh, was a security lead. There was a lot of fun here. And then I was one of those ones that came here not really knowing what I wanted to do. Uh, so I was in general studies up until my junior year when I got pulled into the office and said, you've got to declare something, uh, and ended up with a double major in political science and in history. And it has prepared me well for life.
[HARROZ] That's amazing. You have three children and we've got, I think, two in good shape to prepare them to come to you, one who's a bit of a challenge right now.
[TREAT] He got dropped on his head is what we tell people. He's a fan of, uh, Stillwater. Uh, but he he's I'm proud of him. He's a great kid, but he does like the orange and black. His crimson cream.
[HARROZ] There's still time, you know.
[TREAT] There's always the prodigal son. We'll try to. We'll try to get him back. Uh, but, you know, when we're doing well in football, he tends to be a little less brazen about his love for OSU. Although they got us in wrestling this weekend, so.
[HARROZ] I know I was there last night. Yeah, I'm down to the final, final match.
[TREAT] Hey, it's a lot better than some people thought.
[HARROZ] That's right.
[TREAT] I was proud of the effort. Grace was just fun to be there. Great environment, a little annoying.
[HARROZ] The fact that you were a Ewing scholar at OU. right?
[TREAT] Why is that annoying?
[HARROZ] Well, because I tried for it twice. I got turned down twice
[TREAT] But they were very wise and nice selections.
[HARROZ] And I hate these scholarships that have standards and those don't play into my wheelhouse at all. But I tried for it twice. Didn't get the Ewing scholarship. You did while here though you can you sort of explain to our audience what that is and how that contributed to your career?
[TREAT] So I got rejected my first time as well and went back at it and got accepted. It was a life changing fellowship, uh, the endowment at the UN Fellowship and all the fellowships that are funded by generous donations have made a huge difference in my life. The Ewing Fellowship got to you interviewed in front of professors and then former Ewing fellows, Dr. Gaddy, who I know is moving on, which I don't like, but he was on that deal and asked me a bunch of off the wall questions.
It was intimidating, but it was really good preparation for job interviews and then got a stipend to go out to D.C. and work for whoever you would except you. Uh, I got rejected on the first offer. I actually tried to go work for James Traficant.
[HARROZ] Uh, no kidding.
[TREAT] He ended up in federal prison, So that's a good, good deal.
I didn't go to work for him. And then, uh, really, uh, providential. And in many ways, because, uh, Tom Coburn did accept me when he was a member of the U.S. House and since I was from K2, so he was the U.S. Rep from that area, and he became my mentor and somebody that I, uh, really have a deep amount of respect for.
He's obviously passed on, but I would have not had an opportunity to go to D.C. Absent that, and to be honest with you, I applied for it because I was too poor to go to DC and I really wanted I love history. Yeah, I had no interest in politics whatsoever. And I got out to D.C. and they put me to work on the foreign appropriations budget. I wanted to be there for other social issues, but they said, no, we need we've got plenty of people there. You need to work on the appropriations side. And it opened my eyes to New opportunities. And really, I wouldn't be sitting here next to the Speaker of the House had it not been for that Ewing fellowship. Yeah, it's it's life changing.
[HARROZ] It really is. And we're thankful. It's better that you received it than me given the outcome,
[TREAT] I couldn't agree more.
[HARROZ] Yeah, I'm still bitter. I just understand it better. Yeah.
All right, Mr. Speaker, you are. You've got a private life as well. And a lot of folks don't know that there are other jobs besides being the leader itself. And you received a finance degree when you were an undergrad right here?
[MCCALL] Yeah, that's correct.
[HARROZ] And you might tell our listeners about your career in banking and how that's connected.
[MCCALL] Yes, I when I finished here though, I returned back to our family's business. We have a community bank in southern rural Oklahoma and that's what I determined I was really wired for it and really loved. And public service was not it was not anything that I really was interested in early on. It's but when I when I transitioned back from college into the private sector, bankers are just expected to provide leadership in the community. My father really encouraged that and it's that path led to me getting involved in not just civic organizations but ultimately municipal government in terms of the city council race and then which led to mayor.
Each time people have encouraged me to run and I never thought it was the right time to run. But I did learn that there's a the your personal calendar is never a great time to run for office. You know, you have family of business. You have, you know, all these obligations. But politically it's that calendar is completely different. It's in rural town, Oklahoma, small town, Oklahoma, the time that you run for office is when a seat's open. Regardless of the outcome. There's no hurt feelings. People are running for the seat rather than against one another. And I had served in that capacity for about eight years, one as a city councilman, seven years as a city mayor. I really had kind of planned on, you know, exiting fairly soon. And that's a that's an eternity at the at the local level, which is probably the toughest level of public service that I've experienced so far. But I had a group of people once again said, we think you did a good job. Our state reps turn termed out. Why don't you want you consider running? And we had once again back to relationships that were established here at the University of Oklahoma. I talked to a few people, Sean Burrage, one of those who was already in the in the state Senate. I think he served with
[TREAT] I did, great minority.
[HARROZ] Did you go the opposite direction of the advice he gave you?
[MCCALL] I asked. I asked Sean, hey, what's it like serving in the state legislature? And he said, Charles, except for the budget, it's just like junior high.
[TREAT] Accurate description.
[MCCALL] Yeah, but once again, the political calendar was right. The seat was opened typically in rural Oklahoma. Once they select their state representative, if they do a good job, typically there's just not a lot of activity from cycle to cycle.
In the six cycles that I've run, I've only had I've only had two times that I run initially. And one one other challenge about halfway in, but where I do think public service is important to the state and the life experience, the experience that I garnered here while at the University of Oklahoma, educationally, socially, the connections made plus the life experience gained in the private sector. I do think have contributed significantly to what we've been able to accomplish the last few years. And on that point, you can't do anything alone in the state legislature. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm the leader of the House. Greg's the leader of the Senate. But we've got to have a great working relationship in our caucuses, and our chambers have to work well in order to really effectuate positive change for the for the state.
So I've been really excited and feel honored to have served in the legislature the last ten years. We've seen the worst of times, but I think I will see the best of times right now. And I know Greg and I, you know, share a common interest of keeping it that way.
[HARROZ] Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I mean, sitting here, you know, two months to go until session starts again, the titles always sound great, right? All three of us have really good titles, but it's really hard. I mean, when you look at being speaker or pro tem, I mean, I see you all in the, you know, two weeks out from the end of session, right. And I mean, it is it is hair on fire, pressure’s everywhere. It is really difficult work.
One of the most frequent questions I get from students, you know, is is what you know, what career should I take? You know, what are the opportunities and challenges? And Mr. Speaker, you just spoke to the opportunities. It's provided you know. Pro Tem Treat I'd love to get your take. You know when somebody comes to you and says you've got a fancy title, you know how hard it is and they ask you about pursuing, you know, a public interest component to their career.
What are your thoughts and comments?
[TREAT] First off, I'm jealous of both of your titles because President Pro-Tem no one knows what that actually does. I spend most of my time describing what it is and people like, Oh, Majority Leader. I was like, No, we actually have a different title that way. So I'm actually jealous of speaker and president. See if I can change the Constitution and get that taken care of.
But you know, our titles are fleeting. Uh, we're not guaranteed tomorrow in our lives. And I think that being able to serve your community, you know, Charles and I both moved on into leadership, which is a different set of priorities. You still are trying to serve the people that sent you there in your individual districts, but you have to balance that with the needs of every other district across the state.
And it's not easy. Sometimes his chamber has different priorities than my chamber, and we all come from the same areas, but we have a different outlook on how things should be done. Normally, not a different outlook on what the outcome should be, but the path to get to that outcome. And so, I have a deep respect for the Speaker and my colleagues, who work really hard.
But just generically, when students ask that, I think internships, I think I can't underscore the importance of those because you can really get in there and see I don't belong in this field. This is not what my burning passion is or I had no idea how much more meaning my life would have if I got into this field. And so I think internships, fellowships, are life changing. They were for me, and I think many people that I know had an experience, whether it was in banking or advertising or foreign service, whatever that field was, that they went into, those internships and scholarships that you compete with here at OU and other institutions really give you a glimpse of what it really means. I've I got friends who were journalism majors that absolutely hated it when they got into it. And I've got others that absolutely they felt like they had found their calling.
And so I think take advantage of the opportunities you have while you're in college. Those don't come around again. I remember people saying, well, you'll have a life, a lifetime of opportunity to explore other fields. But I think there's nothing like the university experience to be able to explore what do you really believe and what are you really called to do?
[HARROZ] Yeah, and I guess beautifully put. Speaker, you want to add to that?
[MCCALL] It's a to the Pro Tem’s point I to me the the on campus experience you just you can't replace it I know that there are you know for my sons I really wanted them to experience the same and coming from a small rural town it can be a little bit of an adjustment but they thoroughly have enjoyed their time here at the university and it's made an impact on their life. And so OU continues to be you know, I think the premier institution for higher education in the state of Oklahoma.
[HARROZ] Well, to me that's exciting. We just have one more Treat to work on to make sure it's a full suite.
[MCCALL] I'm two for two. So, Greg.
[TREAT] Hey, I will try to be three for three, but I think 67% may be a good that's a good number.
[HARROZ] So, yeah, it's great.
[TREAT] It's a really good number. It really is. You know, the other thing, if I could just add on, I don't mean to go off here, but I think there's so much pressure when you're in college on what your degree is. And I know so many people that that work outside of their degree field, too.
I think learning and relationships and being able to learn how to learn. So my dad's received a zoology degree from the University of Tulsa. He designs and builds engines, but that zoology degree still had value and the critical thinking skills he received at the University of Tulsa under that scenario still had value. I never thought that I was going to go into politics. Even though I had a political science and history. I actually was trying to follow in your footsteps. I was going to go to law school, but I got tied in with Tom Coburn and he asked me if I wanted to help change the world. And that was enticing to a young man.
And so, I think we put a lot of pressure on kids on what is your degree field going to be at that time? And that's important, but also know the experience here is, I think, even more important.
[HARROZ] Yeah. You know, it's interesting you say that. So, I changed my degree several times in undergrad here though I graduated with I was pre-med through economics with a minor in zoology. Which is just completely erratic.
[TREAT] Yes.
[HARROZ] It is funny. I mean it really is. It's about learning about yourself, about getting the education that's both purely academic and also, you know, co-curricular, extracurricular. Absolutely. I think that's 100% honor percent. Right. When you think about it, I mean, each of you are in your 10th year.
[MCCALL] I'm 12.
[TREAT] 12. Yeah. I got a bonus. My sentence was longer.
[HARROZ] Oh, that's right. So, you each have to worry about being paroled at the same time. It all comes at the same time. Yes. Yeah. So, you each have two more years remaining on your term. We don't call it a sentence remaining on your term.
[TREAT] It's all matter of perspective. Right.
[HARROZ] Do you mark each day right. With a yes. Right. Every five you go across.
You know, we talk about this privately, this idea that all three of us are Oklahomans and each of our job carries unique challenges, unique constituencies. But at the end of the day, you know, we want to make a difference. And I love the fact that we have those conversations about, you know, what can we do to really change Oklahoma in the lives of Oklahomans for the better. And I cannot state that enough. How proud I am to get to work with you all and find out what role we can play. And we know that we're not sufficient, but we're a piece of it. As you all think about the next couple of years and all you've done and I listed before you all came on, some of those things you've done the last two years, any two of which would have been historic investments directly from the legislature to you.
When you all think about what you want for your legacy as you go on to the next chapter here in two years, what is that? Let's start with you, Mr. Speaker.
[MCCALL] I think both Greg and I, from our perspective and I won't speak for Greg, but for me, I mean, for us to be successful well and to be effective, I don't think you the I don't want to be at the state capitol. I don't want the role or that title just for that reason. And most of the people we serve with in the legislature, I think, feel that way for the time that we were there. We want to make a difference. I think legacy wise, you know, the best compliment that could be paid to you is when that term, when that run is over, that that people and the state would, you know, when they look back in the history you know, they would say, well, you know, for this decade, things really were great. I mean, things change. We the state really took a significant, several steps forward. Oklahoma really emerged on the national scene in terms of whatever that may be. You know, for me, it's more financial economic base, but that's just my walk of life.
So, you know, ultimately, I think the legacy is did we make a difference? Was a time spent well and that's largely driven by how well did everybody work together not just between the legislative chambers, but, you know, our friends, our strategic partners, the stakeholders in the state of Oklahoma. Could we bring everybody along to effectuate some great positive outcomes?
[HARROZ] Yeah, I love the answer. Yeah. Mr. Pro Tem?
[TREAT] If you boil it down to its basic thing, I talked about my dad earlier. I grew up hunting a lot and he always told me our job is to leave it better than we found it. So, when you would see trash in the field or you would see spent shells, pick them up, put them in your game bag and and clean up the field a little bit. And so, I simply just want to leave it better than I found it, uh, and build on the successes that people that were there before me built on. It's a simple goal. I just want to leave it better than I found it.
[HARROZ] Yeah. No, I love that. And, you know, all the times I try and boil down what, you know, what's the meaning of life. And I really think it is, you know, and I say it a lot around here, love. And if you can make a difference in in these roles, we know we can. And to me that's really exciting. And I love the comment about it as broader partnership. Right. If you know at the university, you know a key thing for us is that we know we are necessary but not sufficient. And I love when we come forward with ideas and you all challenge it and say, okay, what's private sector investment? What are the other stakeholders doing and how does how do we leverage this for the good of the state? Yeah, I think that's absolutely terrific.
So your kids, we've talked about them, right? All of them, when they ask you if they come to you and say, Dad, I'd like to go into politics, I'd like to like to serve.
What's the advice you give your own family? Let's start with you, Mr. Speaker.
[MCCALL] I only have one child I think that would even contemplate. I had one that has been to the capital, spent one week with me in ten years at the capital. I have another child that when he was in K through 12, any week I would have him up, he just enjoyed the atmosphere.
But I think, you know, my advice to them would be, you know, it's public service, you know, and that's admirable if you want to pursue that, that's wonderful. But realize what it is that you're pursuing. And it truly is, you know, serving others, regardless of the image that may exist. It's really about putting yourself last.
And if you really want to be in last, then run for speaker is because there's a limit the status. If there's a hundred other people in that chamber that are much, you know, that you have to put in front before yourself.
[HARROZ] Yeah, absolutely.
[TREAT] So, my three kids, Mason, Cooper and Olivia, Olivia is the only one that's interested in it at this point. She's very interested in it, and I'm trying to foster that. Although I've. I've told them if you put truth serum and me, I said, go make money before you do it. It's you lose. You bleed money when you're there. I mean, you really do in public service. And so, uh, I've told them to, to put Oklahoma and their fellow citizens or wherever they live first, but also make sure you take care of your family and my daughter. If you've ever been around her. She likes to be at the Capitol all the time. In fact, she told me yesterday at dinner, I got back in town, and she said, Dad, I'm going to the capital with you. And I said, no, you're not. You've got school. And she goes, But I'll learn more at the capital. She was making a nice, hard, hard sell. Uh, and I didn't fall for it.
But I think it's an admirable calling, just like, you know, there's all kinds of jokes about lawyers and everything, but if you're called into a profession, there is a great amount of good you can do for people. And so, I think that I've seen a difference in people's lives that I've been able to be a part of, uh, and it, it hopefully the legacy is there.
You know, I go to funerals and one of the things I do as a Pro Tem is I feel kind of obligated. Anyone who I served with or didn't serve with that had the title. Senator, if I can go, I go to the funeral. And it's a sobering experience. Number one, it's over.
And just because we know, uh, it, we're all going to be there someday and then not to bring the whole show down. But the other sobering thing is just how few colleagues and, and, and how fewer lobbyists there are. So, I tell our incoming colleagues, I tell my kids that that, hey, make sure you have authentic friendships with people.
I think I have an authentic friendship with both of you. And Charles. And but those are those are few and far between in public office or in any profession, unless you really invest the time into getting to know your colleagues and the people you serve.
[HARROZ] Yeah. Now that's beautiful and true. And it's interesting, you know, I think it's interesting that the answers to the questions about what advice would you give to a student who's looking at this and the question, what would you advise your own family?
You know, what I found is that. So, I was pre-med and my father was a physician, and it was very similar to the answer you all gave about advising your own kids because he had been in love being a physician. He was an OB-GYN and so delivered babies and brought life and happiness in the world. But it was really hard. And when he talked about, you know, do you go to medical school or law school for him because he had done it and he knows he knew how difficult it was. There's sort of this desire to protect against having to go through those tough phases. And I think the reality is, is that for any of the students we advise or our own literal own children, if you're going to do what matters right, if you're going to improve the lives of others and you do it the right way, it's going to be hard.
And so, the only way to make it really work is to find something about which you're passionate. And I love the idea that that that's the goal. This idea is to find, you know, through internships or other things that you're doing while you're in school, kind of leverage the opportunity to find out what it is that your passion. Because if you do it the right way, if you really impacted many lives as you would like to, it's going to be hard because it's not easy and the titles are shiny. But that isn’t every day for sure.
So, hey, thank you all for being guests on this show. Thank you for being friends. Thank you for caring about the state so much, because I do get to see, you know, behind the curtain on your jobs. And they're really hard and they are a big sacrifice.
So, I couldn't thank you all enough. We've got a lot to accomplish in the next couple of years. I know each of your careers have a lot of years left on them, so hopefully well beyond the public service that you're committed to the next couple of years, you continue to do what you're doing for the state because it's making a huge difference and we could not be more grateful for it.
So, thank you all and thanks to all of you for listening and watching. We have a YouTube channel now so you can watch. This is probably how you're consuming this right now. You might watch it two or three times because of the incredible wisdom that's come out of this. But we're thankful you joined us. Thank you for joining this episode of Conversations with the President and look forward to seeing you next time.
[MCCALL] Thanks. Thank you.
[TREAT] Thank you, Joe.
